We revisit our fourth ever episode of I Know Dino with improved audio high quality and updates on a few the subjects we mentioned again in 2015.
In our fourth episode of I Know Dino, we had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Phil Currie, a famend paleontologist who has contributed a lot to paleontology that there’s even a museum named after him. Dr. Currie can also be a professor on the College of Alberta, the place he teaches the web course Dino 101, which works over dinosaur appearances and main teams, how fossils are shaped and interpreted, how dinosaurs lived, dinosaur origins, and dinosaur extinction, and extra.
Dr. Currie has named 25 new dinosaurs and had three named in his honor. He’s additionally well-known for a centrosaurus bonebed, hadrosaur nesting websites, and the Canada-China Dinosaur Mission, and he has written quite a few books.
He began working on the Royal Alberta Museum in 1976, then often called the Provincial Museum of Alberta, and located so many dinosaur bones the museum ran out of space for storing. In 1979 he wrote the proposal for what’s now the Tyrell Museum, which showcases Alberta’s dinosaurs and has lab services, a examine heart, and large space for storing. In 2005 he took up the Canada Analysis Chair on the College of Alberta so he may spend extra time within the discipline.
So in fact, we had been very honored to have the ability to interview him.
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On this episode, we talk about:
- The dinosaur of the day: Tarbosaurus, which implies “Alarming Lizard.”
- Tarbosaurus lived in Asia in the course of the late Cretaceous, about 70 million years in the past, and weighed as much as 5 tons, was 33-39 ft lengthy, and had 60 tooth (not fairly as huge as T. rex).
- Like T-rex, Tarbosaurus had small forearms, and actually had the smallest forearms of all tyrannosaurs.
- Tarbosaurus lived within the Gobi Desert, in southern Mongolia.
- It was massive however had a light-weight skeleton.
- Tarbosaurus is extra historical than T. rex, which suggests the genus began in Asia and moved to North America by a land bridge that linked the 2 continents.
- Enjoyable Truth: Most dinosaurs had been herbivores, however the first dinosaurs had been carnivores.
See beneath for the total transcript of our interview with Dr. Phil Currie:
Sabrina: First how did you turn out to be fascinated by Paleontology?
Philip Currie: That’s an attention-grabbing story as a result of really I used to be a type of youngsters who appreciated dinosaurs from the time after I was six years previous. And to me it was a field of cereal with a plastic dinosaur in it; that acquired me hooked. However by the point I used to be eleven I’d learn a e-book known as All About Dinosaurs by Roy Chapman Andrews. Andrews e-book was actually about what it was prefer to be a Paleontologist or a scientist within the discipline, and the day I learn the e-book was the day I made a decision I used to be going to be a dinosaur paleontologist interval, full cease.
Sabrina: That’s nice, and I do know you’ve achieved discipline work in Alberta, Antarctica, the Arctic, Argentina, British Columbia, China, Mongolia. What brings you to these locations and what particularly do you search for at these websites?
Philip Currie: Normally it’s an invite that may take me to a special place, however in some circumstances in fact we need to work there. So for instance in Mongolia and China particularly within the Gobi Desert of each international locations, the rocks are about the identical age because the rocks right here in Alberta, and the dinosaurs are very intently associated to those in Alberta. The distinction is that the dinosaurs are preserved in a barely totally different method, so regardless that we’re wanting on the identical dinosaurs mainly they’re preserved otherwise and they also give totally different data. So for me to get details about Alberta dinosaurs I needed to go work within the Gobi Desert basically to know what was occurring there so I may higher perceive what was occurring right here. And it’s been a really profitable program that method.
Sabrina: So what are among the variations in the way it’s preserved?
Philip Currie: Effectively for instance, in Alberta there’s an inclination for the big animals to be very effectively preserved, however the small animals are usually very spotty we’ll say. And the reason being in fact you’ve tyrannosaurs working round, and if tyrannosaurs discovered something in any respect, dwelling or lifeless, they might eat it. And for those who occurred to be small there wasn’t a lot left. Secondly I feel that the atmosphere was such that the rivers had been fairly sturdy, and they’d reduce into the riverbanks and undercut skeletons and rework the bones and so forth, and for those who occurred to be a thick animal the place the bones are heavy they’ll simply fall to the underside of the stream and so they get buried there they’ll keep kind of in affiliation, however the small ones get busted up fairly badly by the river and get washed downstream. So it’s not that the bones aren’t there, simply that the skeletons aren’t there. In order that’s sort of a standard preservation right here in Alberta, small dinosaurs had been very uncommon. And within the case of Mongolia it’s nearly the other. What occurs is that the atmosphere was barely totally different. It was semi-arid to arid atmosphere, fairly often the small specimens acquired buried within the sand dunes reasonably than the rivers, and as a consequence of that these skeletons have a tendency to remain collectively, so we wished to have a look at the, say the anatomy of dromaeosaurid right here in Alberta, dromaeosaurid embody velociraptor. We’ve by no means discovered a whole one in Alberta earlier than, however for those who go to Mongolia then in fact you may see a whole specimen of velociraptor, then you may perceive what all of the skeletal bones appear like. And then you definately come again to Alberta after which establish all these remoted bones that we’ve got that are very laborious to establish in any other case, by no means seen them earlier than.
Sabrina: Is Mongolia sort of one of the best place to go for you for excavation or is it your favourite?
Philip Currie: After Alberta, I imply Alberta is my favourite as a result of it’s my yard and I can go exterior and I gather dinosaurs really lower than ten kilometers from right here. Theoretically I ought to be capable to discover them a few hundred meters from right here, however the actuality is that after we in contrast different areas Mongolia has a special sort of preservation as I discussed, however you get a number of huge skeletons preserved too. And the factor is you may nearly exit each day in Mongolia and discover a new dinosaur skeleton. Right here it takes a bit of extra time to try this. We’ve got extra bones total however skeletons, they’ve extra skeletons. So it’s stability.
Sabrina: So I learn the Dino Video games e-book, and effectively simply shortly, it talked about your spouse Eva’s a paleobotanist and a paleontologist. So you’re employed very intently collectively, and does she go on all of the digs with you and every little thing?
Philip Currie: Eva will get to return on all of the digs with me which is incredible. It’s definitely good to have a special perspective while you’re taking a look at fossil sources as a result of within the actuality is we’re fascinated by all fossils, regardless that I could specialise in theropod dinosaurs I do work on something that I discover basically as a result of it’s all attention-grabbing and it’s all helpful for any person by way of attempting to determine perhaps the […](00:05:34) environments or the ecosystem or no matter. And in her case as a result of she works on fossil vegetation and pollen and spores, pollen and spores are excellent really for figuring out the extent that these bones come from and what age they’re. And consequently she has a special perspective, and that helps. The opposite good factor for me although is that it doesn’t take her very lengthy to gather her specimens, after which she has to assist me.
Sabrina: Your space of experience is theropods, origin of birds, dinosaur migration patterns and herding conduct. What led you to give attention to these items?
Philip Currie: Effectively I’m very fascinated by type of the biology of dinosaurs generally, and for the theropod dinosaurs it’s sort of a pure, the plastic dinosaur I actually wished after I was a child was tyrannosaurus rex and we get tyrannosaurus rex right here. So it’s one thing I can go and discover, but in addition the family of tyrannosaurus rex. The origin of birds got here in sort of sideways as a result of I by no means thought I may ever say something concerning the origin of birds initially just because beds in Alberta are Cretaceous in age. They’re in all probability thirty or forty million years after birds first appeared. In order that they’re too late in time actually one would suppose to let you know a lot concerning the origin of birds. However in reality it ended up taking a really attention-grabbing twist as a result of among the small meat consuming dinosaurs right here, issues like troodon and dromaeosaurus, these are very birdlike in a number of methods and after I was educated at College, important concepts had been that birds in all probability didn’t come from dinosaurs. Birds in all probability got here from crocodiles or thecodonts or perhaps another group. However the extra I checked out these meat consuming dinosaurs from the late Cretaceous the extra I spotted how hen like they had been, together with to very very small particulars corresponding to the position of nerves and holes within the cranium that you just wouldn’t count on until there was some sort of relationship. Additionally due to our work in China we had contacts there, and I ended up being invited to work on a number of of the species of feathered dinosaurs in China, and this has come round full circle now as a result of we’re discovering feathered dinosaurs right here in Alberta. Despite the fact that they’re late Cretaceous in age, they’re theropod dinosaurs, and they’re very hen like. And there’s loads we are able to find out about say the construction and evolution of feathers by taking a look at our late Cretaceous feathers as effectively.
Sabrina: I additionally learn you labored with pc fashions to be taught extra about dinosaurs, and I do know it, I took the category Dino 101 and I noticed it had just a few interactive parts which was actually cool. Do they assist to make clear dinosaur conduct?
Philip Currie: Laptop modeling is the sort of factor that you just don’t count on dinosaur individuals to do, proper? However the fantastic thing about it’s that dinosaur bones fairly often are very heavy, they’re large, they’re fragile, they’re very laborious to deal with in your arms so you may’t manipulate issues all that simple. I imply it’s not like we don’t have methods to do it. We do we are able to solid them and switch them into gentle plastic after which play with them that method. Nevertheless it’s loads simpler simply to scan specimens or CG scan specimens after which digitize them on a pc. After which we’ll be capable to manipulate the bones. And fairly often it doesn’t let you know precisely what the dinosaur was doing with the say leg bones, however what it does offer you is a spread of potentialities. So it exhibits how far they’ll stretch their legs for instance, or how far they might fold their legs up. After which that’ll offer you some data and then you definately work on the premise that someplace in between might be the truth. And when you do sufficient of this sort of work issues begin to fall collectively and begin to constrain one another, every one among these fashions that we do, and consequently you do I feel find yourself with a reasonably real looking concept of what the animals had been able to. Actually it’s a great way to do say limb fashions or biomechanics the place we’re taking a look at say how jaws closed and the way they chewed issues. However the CT scans and the pc modeling additionally assist us with inside anatomy so for instance the mind case of a dinosaur, we are able to CT scan a cranium. Doesn’t present the mind cavity itself, however from the CT scans we are able to then get the knowledge on the mind cavity after which we are able to see the place the nerves had been working and that helps us interpret how the animal was dwelling, how they had been interacting, what they had been able to and all these issues. So it’s fairly superb what pc modeling has achieved for paleontology over the past twenty years specifically, and as I stated it’s fairly often we are able to’t get a particular reply however we are able to method a lot nearer to actuality by doing the modeling.
Sabrina: So do you employ this system loads now?
Philip Currie: Effectively I’m nonetheless an previous model paleontologist the place I desire to exit into the sphere and gather issues. Do the preparation and do the outline. And I do some pc modeling and I work with pc fashions nevertheless it’s one thing that we’ve made positive that our college students perceive higher as a result of it’s changing into progressively extra essential for them to have the ability to try this. You realize at this stage I might say there have been fairly just a few dinosaurs that we’ve got the digitized data on skeletons for, and naturally we are able to make that data obtainable for different researchers anyplace on the earth. However we nonetheless don’t have every little thing obtainable and as time goes on and increasingly of those digitized skeletons turn out to be obtainable for individuals to work with and naturally it’s going to turn out to be progressively extra essential for his or her work, so we be certain our college students perceive the stuff very effectively and so they do a number of pc modeling. As effectively in fact we nonetheless drag them into the sphere and make them discover specimens and gather them and do the fundamental analysis on them. And since that’s additionally crucial to us.
Sabrina: So I simply wished to deliver up Dino 101 a bit of bit, and it’s a free course open to anybody who needs to hitch, no conditions, and after studying the e-book Dino Video games I acquired the sense that you just’re very open and welcoming together with your work. So what made you determine to create this course?
Philip Currie: Effectively I can’t take credit score for it as a result of it was the Dean of Science of the College of Alberta who first introduced it to our consideration that we may do this sort of factor. And naturally my first query was, what’s a mooc? I requested him why an open course, and I had no concept. It at all times appeared to me that this was an essential method that the science was going as a result of so many individuals are fascinated by dinosaurs and I get contacted on a regular basis by emails or letters or individuals phoning or displaying up in my workplace or no matter. So there’s no query that the urge for food is on the market, and appeared to me that this was a brand new space for instructing and what we wished there was be sure that it was additionally one thing we may incorporate within the college system. So out of Dino 101 we even have two programs on the college. One which known as Paleo 200, and the opposite one which known as Paleo 201. 200 is simply the Dino 101 course basically besides individuals pay tuitions and so they take exams and so they get graded on it. So 201 goes past that the place we’ve got discipline journeys, particular lectures and so forth. So it dietary supplements the fundamental course itself. What we wished to do in fact is within the college see if in reality we may flip this course right into a primary introductory course so that folks may transfer on from the introductory course into different programs in paleontology. And I wasn’t positive how that was going to work, I wasn’t positive the way it was going to work to most of the people with Dino 101 both. It’s simply a type of issues that you just take an opportunity on, you imagine in that there’s super potential to it however whether or not or not you’ll ever understand that potential is one other matter. I must say it succeeded on all ranges that, , we’ve got near fifty thousand college students now with Dino 101. It has one of the best report for individuals finishing the course as a result of lots of people they pattern mooc programs however they don’t really full them. And in addition there are many logistics which might be fairly attention-grabbing. You realize individuals are likely to suppose that it’s little boys who like dinosaurs however the actuality is we’ve impacted extra ladies who take the course, so it’s fairly attention-grabbing that method too. It actually was one thing that we thought in all probability would work. We had no concept the way it was going to work. And it’s been a fantastic schooling for me to see that regardless that the course was actually aimed toward being for a primary yr college pupil, or a better degree highschool college students, in actuality we had individuals as younger as six years previous undergo the course and with the assistance of their mother and father for among the issues they’ve managed to do very effectively. And so it takes the lid off what you suppose you are able to do. Our oldest pupil I feel was effectively into her eighties, so it’s reached lots of people and taught us loads about schooling as effectively.
Sabrina: Ah ya, that’s a wide range. How usually does the course run?
Philip Currie: We run the course twice a yr proper now, and so we’ll begin in September after which they’ll begin once more in January most years. That’s been the sample to this point. We could up it to a few instances a yr, we’re not likely positive but. We’re again within the strategy of creating one other degree of the course per se which we’re tentatively calling Dino 102, and that’ll be extra specialised than Dino 101. So for instance I’ll spend a number of time speaking concerning the origin of the birds from theropod dinosaurs. So we’ll see how that goes too.
Sabrina: Oh wow. So I’ll take that class.
Philip Currie: Good.
Sabrina: So there’s a number of interactive parts in Dino 101. You’ve acquired video classes, photos, however there’s let’s see the 3D fossil exploring atmosphere the place you organize bones on-line, and the interactive timeline that tells us concerning the totally different ages on earth. How did you and your workforce provide you with these parts?
Philip Currie: Effectively we’ve got a number of inventive thinkers together with our previous graduate college students who work in paleontology. All people’s acquired totally different experiences and other ways of approaching issues and so essentially this has been a workforce effort the place we sit down, we brainstorm and provide you with concepts. Among the concepts don’t work in addition to we’d like them to, we substitute them with different concepts and so forth. However the interactive museum concept specifically I actually like as a result of it’s one thing we’re doing anyway and I we’re taking bones and we’re as I discussed digitizing them, and we’re utilizing them for pc modeling. And so one of many actual disadvantages in fact with a web based course is that folks can’t deal with the precise flows. They’ll’t go to a laboratory and decide them up and take a look at these fossils. However by doing the digitized fashions on-line then in fact that does give individuals a chance to see these items from all sides, regardless that it’s a pc mannequin, by no means the much less it’s the identical sort of factor that we’d work on after we’re doing pc mannequin so there’s one thing to be discovered from that. A few of these issues have actually labored very effectively for us and different ones we’re nonetheless taking a look at new concepts, new methods of doing it.
Sabrina: In line with Dino Video games you’re a dino hunter, what does that imply?
Philip Currie: Dino hunters are individuals who exit and hunt fossils in fact, and in my case I’m particularly in search of dinosaurs. And whether or not I’m looking dinosaurs in my residence metropolis of Edmonton or whether or not I’m in reality working in Antarctica or the arctic there’s a number of work concerned in going out and discovering dinosaur bones. They don’t simply out of the blue seem in entrance of you otherwise you simply can’t stroll proper as much as them and there they’re normally. Generally you’ve to spend so much of time strolling and looking. And so for instance a standard day in Dinosaur Provincial Park could be for us to stand up early within the morning and begin strolling and stroll all day in search of fossils. We’ll discover fossils on a regular basis however by way of essential fossils, issues which might be actually distinctive, you must stroll a protracted very long time. So on common regardless of the truth that Dinosaur Park has produced over eight hundred skeletons over time, while you take a look at the quantity of manpower that’s put into discovering these eight hundred skeletons it really works out to about 4 man weeks for each. So 4 man weeks means you’re strolling 4 weeks with out discovering the rest. It’s not fairly that straightforward in fact nevertheless it nonetheless exhibits you that there’s in reality a number of work concerned find issues. We go to a number of locations just like the Arctic and the Antarctic, typically we’re strolling as much as twelve or sixteen hours a day and also you don’t discover a single scrap of bone of something. And but on the finish of the expedition you’ll have discovered one thing that’s solely a single bone, which if in Alberta frankly we’d in all probability ignore as a result of it’s not that essential, however within the Arctic or the Antarctic that’s an identifiable bone that tells you what animals had been in reality dwelling in that space, and it turns into an important specimen. And you set a number of effort into discovering it or looking for it.
Sabrina: Proper. So in Antarctica or the Arctic did you set off on these expeditions anticipating to search out one thing or did you’ve like a tip or one thing, how did you find yourself there?
Philip Currie: The arctic was no tip. We knew that dinosaur bones had been present in some circumstances earlier than. These are simply remoted bones that had been discovered fortuitously by say geologists or any person doing biology on polar bears or no matter. So the arctic, we didn’t have any clues apart from the truth that we knew the rocks had been the fitting age and the potential was there of discovering dinosaur bones. In order that was an attention-grabbing story as a result of we went up there first in 1986, and we appeared and appeared and appeared and we didn’t get something but for one thing like six weeks. And the next yr there was an Inuit boy on the market with a geologist, and he discovered a dinosaur bone. And naturally as soon as he discovered it then we knew okay the world he was was perhaps a pair hundred kilometers away from the place we had been. So we went again in 89, went to the place the place he discovered these bones, and that bone, that preliminary bone, we discovered heaps extra dinosaur bones. So that you at all times should take the possibility typically with these websites. Antarctic was a bit of bit totally different although as a result of in 1990 a geologist was mainly measuring a bit […](00:21:15) of the rocks on a mountainside, which is just about the middle of Antarctica. And he discovered dinosaur bones, and so in 1990 the specimen was discovered, it was partly excavated however in fact the circumstances are very troublesome, it’s very costly to work there. So we had been in a position to go along with a celebration in one thing like 13 years after the specimen was discovered initially to try to gather the remainder of the skeleton. And that was a fully superb expertise for working 600 kilometers from the South Pole and 4 thousand meters, about eleven thousand ft above sea degree. And so it was chilly. And, however we acquired one other a part of the skeleton, a few third of the skeleton out and we lastly went again 2010 and completed the job lastly, and within the strategy of doing that we acquired to go searching a bit of bit, we discovered a number of extra dinosaur skeletons in the identical space. So it was a matter of attending to the world first. As soon as we’re within the space then we began to get higher luck and get higher specimens. So it’s at all times this mixture and typically you’re very fortunate and like any person from most of the people was strolling their canine at one website in Edmonton, and simply occurred to discover a dinosaur. Brings it to our consideration and we understand that hey, this can be a cool website. So we go up and examine it and positive sufficient.
Sabrina: Within the e-book it gave the impression of your focus is on carnivores and particularly Tarbosaurus that… okay.
Philip Currie: Albertosaurus sarcophagus is in reality a dinosaur a dinosaur, it’s very intently associated to tyrannosaurus rex. Right here in Alberta we’ve got one other one known as daspletosaurus, and the three animals type this little sub-family group that every a type of may be very intently associated to one another. Tarbosaurus is a really attention-grabbing one although. It’s discovered within the Gobi Desert, and the place it’s discovered it’s a dominant animal. It’s the most typical dinosaur we discover there. That doesn’t make any sense, as a result of when you concentrate on it you may’t have extra lions than antelope. Principally they should eat and in the event that they should eat there needs to be sufficient meals for them. So usually what occurs is the carnivores solely make up about 5 % of any fauna. That’s true right here in say Alberta the place most of our tyrannosaurs are fairly uncommon animals. There’s solely a type of for each twenty or so plant consuming dinosaurs. However in Mongolia it’s fifty-fifty. That doesn’t actually compute. One thing else is happening there. So it’s a really attention-grabbing downside to try to work out why we get so many Tarbosaurus skeletons in Mongolia. We’re speaking perhaps between seventy and 100 skeletons now that we all know of from Mongolia. And that’s the identical quantity that we’ve got of duck-billed dinosaurs and horn dinosaurs and armor dinosaurs and so forth. All these animals put collectively solely make up the identical factor and the identical quantity as tarbosaurs. We all know it’s acquired one thing to do with some sort of preservational bias although. There’s one thing selectively preserving extra tarbosaurs than the rest. And we all know that as a result of the identical beds nearly will produce footprints. And the footprint sightings are very totally different, as a result of regardless that they’re interspersed with the place we discover the skeletons, after we take a look at the variety of footprints, Tarbosaurus is barely about 5 % of the animals. So the footprints are telling us this can be a regular ecosystem, the skeletons are telling us this isn’t regular. And we’ve got just a few concepts, , for instance it’s fairly potential that Tarbosaurus was a really efficient carnivore that ate nearly every little thing there was to eat of any animal, nevertheless it didn’t depart a lot proof of the plant consuming dinosaurs it was consuming. We all know that Tarbosaurus, like tyrannosaurus rex, had these large tooth and bone-crunching jaws that had been in all probability unbelievable by way of what they’ll do and course of. And we had a really attention-grabbing journey a few years in the past to Komodo Nationwide Park in Indonesia to have a look at komodo dragons and the way they operate. And we witnessed a big pig and wild boar, each the identical measurement as a komodo dragon, which was eaten by 9 komodo dragons who fully dismembered it. They ate every little thing, completely every little thing, even the hair. Fully gone in lower than twenty minutes.
Sabrina: Wow.
Philip Currie: And there was nothing left, nothing however the odor. Nevertheless it was a fantastic schooling too as a result of I by no means realized that komodo dragons may try this sort of factor, and so they don’t have the sort of tooth that say one thing like Tarbosaurus had. Tarbosaurus had tooth that actually had been as effectively tailored as say a hyena is right this moment by way of consuming animals. In order that’s definitely one chance for explaining it. The one factor is , okay effectively why does it occur there, and why doesn’t it occur right here? Why isn’t tyrannosaurus rex doing the identical factor? So these little puzzles are very attention-grabbing and it’s enjoyable to develop a idea or a speculation and exit and see if you will discover proof to help it or refute it. And that’s an enormous a part of our enjoyable now and we mainly paleontologists are detectives. You realize we’re taking a look at these crime scenes and are sixty or 100 million years previous and we’re attempting to determine what occurred. And it’s a number of enjoyable, it’s nice, a fantastic psychological course of attempting to work these items out whereas working with fascinating animals all by themselves.
Sabrina: So I do know one among your theories is that dinosaurs could have lived in gangs. May you elaborate a bit of bit on that?
Philip Currie: Positive, and Alberta right here we’ve got these incredible websites all around the province in reality the place we don’t discover entire skeletons per se, what we discover are bone beds. And within the bone beds we’ve got stays of many people the place all of the bones have fallen aside, basically the skeletons have fallen aside and the bones have turn out to be blended collectively. So that you typically can’t inform which bones belong to which people. Nonetheless, a few of these bone beds are dominated by single species of animals. I began engaged on this within the Seventies and realized that every one definitely after I put all my time into it at the moment is was a ceratopsidae concerned and had been greater than seventy ceratopsium or horned animals had died in the identical place on the identical time. And the one method I’m in a position to clarify this was that these animals had been dwelling collectively on the time of their demise, and so they had been in all probability dwelling collectively as much as the time of their demise. And this implied that these animals in reality had a social construction. We’ve now had an incredible quantity of proof of those horned dinosaurs travelling in herds. We’ve got herds in Dinosaur Park now that appear to characterize mass demise websites, so hundreds of animals. And in different components of the world like Montana we now know that duck billed dinosaurs have indicators which strongly suggests these animals had been transferring in very massive herds as effectively. Alaska as effectively has proof of herds. Right here in Edmonton, ten kilometers from my home we’ve got a herd of edmontosaurus, one of many largest duck billed dinosaurs. And so forth and so forth. So we all know, I feel we’re fairly positive that the plant-eating dinosaurs previous to the late Cretaceous had been in reality herding animals and doubtless migrating animals as effectively. Now the factor is that for those who take a look at a contemporary ecosystem the place you’ve massive herds of herbivores, you nearly invariably have packs of carnivores as effectively. And that’s as a result of the herbivores are ganging collectively partially in order that they’ll shield themselves from the carnivores. That’s good for the herbivores, it’s not good for the carnivores. Carnivores must eat, so mainly they work out little social constructions as effectively. So for those who go to the African veldt for instance, lions that are very intently associated to tigers, lions are very particular social constructions. And that’s as a result of they transfer in teams or prides or household teams, and so they hunt collectively and so they’re going after in fact herds of antelope, herds of zebra, herds of different issues. So there’s a powerful affiliation between herds and packs or herds and prides. Similar factor in North America with herds of caribou and packs of wolves, for instance. You at all times see these sort of issues.
Now for a very long time in dinosaurs we knew that we’ve got these monumental herds of duckbilled dinosaurs, monumental herds of horned dinosaurs, however we didn’t have any proof for the carnivores doing the identical factor. However a curious factor occurred in that after I was performing some museum looking out at one level I discovered a few 1910 Barnum Brown who on his very first expedition to gather dinosaurs in Alberta discovered the positioning the place there have been all these tyrannosaurs that had been dwelling collectively or had died collectively. And he had components of 9 skeletons of the tyrannosaurus, albertasaurus from one single place. And that acquired me fairly excited so we dug up no matter it’s we may to assist us re-find the positioning, and there was {a photograph} fortunately, and that one {photograph} ultimately led to the invention of the positioning that Brown had excavated in 1910. Effectively Brown had solely excavated a part of the skeleton, and he in reality had misplaced a number of it within the floor sill, so we took the quantity from 9 animals to greater than twenty animals within the one bowl mattress. And this can be a place the place we’ve got tyrannosaurs and we’ve got just a few duck-bill dinosaur bones, however they appear to be nearly ancillary, they’re simply there by chance. They had been washed in by the river, and so they’re not articulated animals. So out of the blue we had this proof that implies that at the very least some tyrannosaurs moved collectively in packs. And we began taking a look at different tyrannosaur websites to see if in reality there was proof of different tyrannosaurs had been doing the identical factor as albertasaurus. And Tarbosaurus in Mongolia, one of many causes we could have so many animals there and why they outnumber all of the plant consuming dinosaurs as effectively is as a result of perhaps these items in reality had been additionally transferring in packs, and what we’re discovering in Mongolia are remnants of those packs that acquired trapped by some pure course of and killed a number of people. So proper now I feel I really feel fairly strongly about the truth that we’ve got packs of meat consuming dinosaurs which might be in reality looking herds of plant consuming dinosaurs.
Sabrina: Is {that a} broadly accepted idea?
Philip Currie: Effectively it’s very attention-grabbing due to course after we first proposed that we had a herd horn dinosaurs, everyone was very a lot in opposition to that. All people was saying that dinosaurs had been simply typical reptiles, and reptiles right this moment don’t normally transfer in any sort of social groupings. So there was a number of resistance to that originally, however the factor is that we acquired a lot proof, there was so many locations in Alberta the place we had these herds of horn dinosaurs, or between Montana and Alberta the place we had these herds of duck invoice dinosaurs and subsequent to that in fact we discovered plenty of websites, of footprint websites the place we’ve got different kinds of dinosaurs too, together with the large sauropods, who dwell in teams. So all of the proof ultimately turned so overwhelming that I feel nearly all of individuals settle for it simply by the, this tidal wave of data that was being collected worldwide. With the carnivores you’re coping with animals which might be a lot rarer, and consequently you’ve a a lot decrease probability of discovering groupings like this. However now we’ve got fairly just a few websites which might be doing the identical sort of factor. So I might say the thought is new sufficient that there’s nonetheless fairly a little bit of resistance to the thought, however I feel as time goes on and folks look into it extra and try to show or disprove it, it doesn’t matter which, you do in reality gather proof that’s going to indicate what actuality was like. And proper now I might say that the shift is coming in direction of individuals accepting extra of the concept these animals did transfer in teams.
Sabrina: So I do know you’ve collaborated corresponding to with the Korea Mongolia Worldwide Dinosaur Mission. Do you discover that you just be taught extra from working in groups, or extra by yourself? Which do you favor?
Philip Currie: I sort of like each, however the actuality is with small tasks you are able to do these by your self. However while you’re coping with one thing that probably has an incredible quantity of data which you could collect collectively or the place you want totally different sorts of sciences or individuals with totally different varieties of experience to work collectively, then the bigger tasks work higher as groups. Paleogeology like the entire sciences turns into rather more multi-disciplinary and multinational over time, and we discover that ya we should still do particular person tasks, however I feel that almost all of the tasks we’re working with you need to make some true breakthroughs, then it’s actually good to work collectively as a bunch. There’s some actual benefits in that.
Sabrina: In the event you had a want record of finds what could be on the high of it?
Philip Currie: Oh my want record would in all probability be troodon. Troodon’s a… was first present in 1854, for those who imagine it. A single tooth in Montana. And after a very long time we had no concept what troodon was. It was a small theropod dinosaur for some individuals. For different individuals it was a lizard. For different individuals it was a plant consuming dinosaur, we actually had no concept. However within the Eighties we in reality discovered a jaw right here in Alberta which proved that troodon was a carnivorous dinosaur. Turned out to be one other dinosaur that we had known as Styracosaurus which turned out was the brainiest dinosaur we knew of. Largest identified mind. That is an animal the place the mind at, for its physique measurement, is about six instances the scale of a crocodile of the identical physique measurement. It’s an animal that has binocular imaginative and prescient, like us. It sees issues in three dimensions. It had arms that might manipulate issues. It had very lengthy legs that had been constructed for velocity. It’s a runner. And now we all know from assessments in Mongolia and China that that is in reality a feathered dinosaur as effectively. And possibly the dinosaur that’s most intently associated to birds. Now the curious factor is that in spite of everything these years we nonetheless discover bits and items of this dinosaur however we’ve got by no means discovered a complete skeleton, and so for me I might simply like to discover a entire skeleton simply to know that every one the issues that we put collectively over time, the entire proof in reality is right.
Sabrina: My final query is, what recommendation would you give to budding paleontologists, or people who find themselves simply captivated with dinosaurs?
Philip Currie: Effectively in fact there’s some ways to be captivated with dinosaurs, there are numerous individuals who specialise in dinosaurs in very other ways. And naturally not everyone likes to analysis, not everyone likes to do discipline work, not everyone likes to work in dusty collections in an previous museum. Some individuals love to do issues on pc modeling and every little thing, there’s simply so some ways you may work on dinosaurs, and if you wish to turn out to be a analysis paleontologist you actually should go the entire mile. You must undergo your education, you must try to get a doctorate ultimately, you must publish analysis papers, be good at writing and illustration, at discovering issues and all the remainder of it. I imply there’s a number of issues concerned, however there are additionally individuals who like dinosaurs who solely go so far as changing into say collections managers. They don’t do a lot analysis, they’re extra fascinated by simply dealing with and dealing in fossils themselves. Or changing into technicians the place they’re doing preparation on dinosaurs. I really like doing preparation however I by no means have time to do preparation as a result of I spend most of my time in fact writing and issues like that. There’s different people who find themselves in reality artists who specialise in nothing however dinosaurs. There’s three in Alberta alone who’re world well-known artists who do nothing however work on the dinosaurs. So there’s some ways to pores and skin a cat, and it’s mainly you must determine precisely what you need, and you must then discover the best way to do it. The mechanism to do it. In my case it was a matter of at the same time as a highschool pupil I used to be going to individuals who had been already paleontologists and asking them what I wanted to do by way of my course work to get into the college and specialise in dinosaurs particularly. In different circumstances in fact for those who’re an artist and also you need to do it that method then you definately method artwork college, see what you are able to do that method. However important factor is don’t be afraid to speak to individuals, as a result of everyone within the discipline whether or not you’re a analysis scientist or an artist who focuses on dinosaurs, they’re very keen to speak to individuals and see them develop a choice in your profession.
